Second-guessing my vet...

[Peanut]

I feel like I lack knowledge thanks to my vet. And in turn, I'm feeling irresponsible and guilty. Please, no negative comments..

Around April 7th I noticed my female's vulva started swelling, obviously it was her first heat coming around. She was swollen for about 3 weeks before she started bleeding. She bled for a week, then was receptive to our little male. (May 7th - May 14th ish). During this time, I took her into my vet just for a well-checkup, and all was fine. Because my male was 4 months, I had asked they would be able to have pups, I read some things that said they could, some said they couldn't (I've NEVER bred any dogs and NEVER planned on it, I wasn't sure!). I asked if I needed to separate them the entire time. Our vet said they were fine. If I really wanted to, just keep a babygate up during the night so they'd stay away from each other. So I did what was recommended. About 2 weeks later I noticed her teets swelling. They slowly started getting bigger and bigger. I took her to the vet last Thursday to be 100% sure it was pseudocyesis (phantom), and he said there is absolutely no way she's pregnant. Although, he did say "If you get her in first thing Monday morning to be spayed, I will waive this appointment cost".. I've ALWAYS waited until 2 years to spay/neuter because I have mixed feelings on letting them fully mature before getting fixed - as well as, I have considered showing my male. So, I told them no thank-you, I'd just keep them separated during heats like I always planned.. The night after her vet appointment, when our vet swore there was NO way she was pregnant - she was laying on her side and I kept seeing movement. I got a video of it and sent it into the vet. Our vet said it was just intestinal gas, and again mentioned he would do her spay for 20$ off - a total of 55$ if I call the next day and set up an appointment.

Anyway, I keep seeing this movement any time she is relaxing/sleeping on her side. She's not MUCH bigger than before, but her teets have definitely gotten HUGE over the past week.

My cousin, who did used to breed dachshunds.. I showed her the video, and she says it looks like puppies to her, and if by chance it is a Phantom pregnancy, this is truly a first for her. "I'll believe it's gas when no puppies come...looks like maybe a small litter" She also said, that if this vet truly knew what he was doing, instead of forcing a spay onto us, he would have recommended something for the gas.

I'm honestly worried! My pup is only 9 months old, and it scares me for her sake. I feel like this is all my fault. Payday is Friday, and I plan to take her for an Xray.. She'd have to be somewhere between 8-9 weeks by then close enough to do an xray.. Is there anything else I can do? I mean, obviously my vet could be right.. But, what are the chances my dog has severe intestinal gas at the same time she's having a phantom pregnancy..

I feel like maybe I should check out some different vets.. Although there's no telling if the information I'm googling is accurate, either. Like I said, I've never bred dogs, never been around whelping dogs, and never PLANNED on breeding dogs.

I'll link the video if anybody else wants to see...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7uvdd5XF8]Puppy?? - YouTube[/ame] -- The first few seconds, she's getting comfortable. After that she relaxes and falls asleep, and you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[Wandering Man]

Go see a second vet for a second opinion.

 

[Penny]

IF she is pregnant, are you doing everything possible for her to support the pregnancy in terms of nutrition? The xray will show what you're dealing with. Better have some chats with your cousin and if there's pups, she might help you with the delivery and care. You're fortunate you have someone with experience.

When you say you're taking her Friday, do you mean next week, not today? Just breathe. Do not do a spay but if she's pregnant, you will help her through the process.

 

[sherlock]

I would definitely see a second vet. No matter what the circumstances, I wouldn't put up with one who kept pushing spay/neutering on you once you said not yet. Also, like Penny said, talk with your cousin just in case Peanut is pregnant...get all the info you can!

 

[Peanut]

IF she is pregnant, are you doing everything possible for her to support the pregnancy in terms of nutrition? The xray will show what you're dealing with. Better have some chats with your cousin and if there's pups, she might help you with the delivery and care. You're fortunate you have someone with experience.

When you say you're taking her Friday, do you mean next week, not today? Just breathe. Do not do a spay but if she's pregnant, you will help her through the process.

Well, I finally started researching, as a precaution. And, I THINK I'm doing everything I should be. We have been gradually switching puppy food for the last month, so she has still been getting puppy food which I read was a good idea until closer to the end. And I've been leaving a bowl of food out, so she can help herself - because she's been eating about 50% more food than normal.

I've talked to my cousin about it as a precaution. I have a whelping box set up, I've been taking her temps and it's been normal, no drops, and it's not high, which is good in a sense that it's not an infection (pyometra or otherwise). She told me that basically Peanut will do it all on her own, but I need a few clean towels just incase I need to help her out, and how long I should wait before I help her out. How long she has until I need to get her to a vet, etc.

Friday as in today(didn't realize it was Friday already), hopefully, as long as the check comes in before the vet closes. If not, we'll have to wait until the beginning of the week. I feel like she'd be due by then, but I can't be 100% sure, because I wasn't timing anything.. Dates are estimated because of when I took pictures of her, knowing it was the time frame she was in heat.. So, it's all a mess. I never thought I'd have to second-guess a vet.

My last female used to have false pregnancies after being fixed, she always had a little bit of milk produced as well. This time she looks like she has enough milk to successfully sustain a few puppies.. It's not just a little swelling, it's swelling as though she could give birth any minute.. That's why I find it weird.

 

[Peanut]

I would definitely see a second vet. No matter what the circumstances, I wouldn't put up with one who kept pushing spay/neutering on you once you said not yet. Also, like Penny said, talk with your cousin just in case Peanut is pregnant...get all the info you can!

My cousin said that she has never had a spay pushed upon her dogs, and she said that was warning #1. She said the minute I told her that, she was skeptical about the situation. Not one time, but two times he has tried offering it to me at a discounted price. That's fine and all, and She will be spayed eventually, but not yet. I also read that it's not recommended to spay during a phantom pregnancy because "It might seem like a good idea to spay the female to end the false pregnancy as spaying will remove the ovaries and the corpora lutea they carry. Unfortunately, this does not end the prolactin production from the pituitary gland so spaying may actually prolong the false pregnancy. It is best to wait until the false pregnancy is over and then spay her to prevent future episodes."

Which is another reason I question my vet. And, I would feel awful if I went through it and she was pregnant.. Not only would they kill the pup(pies), but my dog would also go through the grieving process I've read a lot about.

I felt like an irresponsible owner the entire time I was at the vet's office. I take her to the vet for everything, I always ask question.. One minute I get certain info, the next minute I get something totally different. At first I was told "Because this is her first heat, while it's possible, it's highly unlikely that she's having a false pregnancy this young" .. Then I get "There is absolutely NO way she's pregnant".. All by the same exact vet.

When I went in last week for the well-check, and he did the palpation - which I also read was stupid to do after 30ish days because the pups sacs fill up and you can no longer palpate the little hard knots which is what they look for prior to 30ish days. She'd have to be way closer to the end, there's no way she could only be 30 days. Like I said, my guestimate is that she'd be due around the 9th-14th.. Not another whole month. I asked at that vet appointment if they'd go ahead and do an XRAY, and he said "If you're willing to fork over the money for an XRAY for 70$, you may as well just get a spay done for 55."

So, It looks like I'm going to switch vets regardless of whether she's pregnant or it's a phantom. I've already switched vets once because of rude service, and now this one. I'm running out of vets around here!

 

[sherlock]

Yes, your vet sounds pretty awful!!! I'm sorry you have to deal with that on top of everything else. You should definitely check out some google/yelp reviews when looking for another.

So sorry you guys are dealing with this. Hugs to you and pets to Peanut!

 

[DeafDogs]

Well, Mouse had a false pregnancy her first heat (she was 9 months old too) Your girl should have bled for 3 weeks, not just one... though first heats can be off. Sounds like your precocious little boy got to her Mouse's vulva only swells about a week before she starts bleeding, so I thought it strange that your girl swelled so early.

I don't believe in early spay/neuter either (between second and third heats for females, and I'll never neuter another male) Mouse isn't spayed, and likely won't be as she's allergic to Stainless steel (and some other silver coloured metals) and everything a vet uses is stainless steel.

Almost makes me think the whole pushing the spay on you is so they can get rid of the pups without your knowledge, imho.

Yes, a high protein, high fat food is necessary for pregnant and nursing females, though it need not be puppy food (I have never fed puppy food at all). Also, if the food you're feeding isn't high quality, you may want to supplement her diet with more meat (raw or cooked, but I prefer raw)

Your vid does look like puppies to me, though I've never seen movement, just felt it when my roommate's St. Poodle was bred.

Good luck! (and please do change vets!)

 

[Peanut]

Well, Mouse had a false pregnancy her first heat (she was 9 months old too) Your girl should have bled for 3 weeks, not just one... though first heats can be off. Sounds like your precocious little boy got to her Mouse's vulva only swells about a week before she starts bleeding, so I thought it strange that your girl swelled so early.

I don't believe in early spay/neuter either (between second and third heats for females, and I'll never neuter another male) Mouse isn't spayed, and likely won't be as she's allergic to Stainless steel (and some other silver coloured metals) and everything a vet uses is stainless steel.

Almost makes me think the whole pushing the spay on you is so they can get rid of the pups without your knowledge, imho.

Yes, a high protein, high fat food is necessary for pregnant and nursing females, though it need not be puppy food (I have never fed puppy food at all). Also, if the food you're feeding isn't high quality, you may want to supplement her diet with more meat (raw or cooked, but I prefer raw)

Your vid does look like puppies to me, though I've never seen movement, just felt it when my roommate's St. Poodle was bred.

Good luck! (and please do change vets!)

She swelled up for quite some time, not her teats, just her vulva. And the bleeding was very little, I made her a little pillow and put a towel over it to keep it off things as she slept, and it couldn't have been more than a week. How long did Mouse's false pregnancy last? Any idea? I was told it happens between 6-12weeks after their heat, and then it only lasts about 3 weeks. I'm not finding any truth behind that. This has been going on throughout the entire time after her heat. Also, her vulva never went back down. It's been swollen since her heat started, to this day.

I catch a lot of crap for not spaying immediately, but of all the dogs I've owned, I've never had an issue with false pregnancies, or even pregnancies for that matter. I've never had two puppies at the same time, though, so that's why I asked the vet about keeping them separated.

We're feeding them Earthborn Holistic Primitive Naturals - Grain Free. Before that, it was Canidae puppy. So there is still a tiny bit of the Canidae mixed in with the Earthborn due to the gradual switch. She also tends to get our leftover meat.

 

[DeafDogs]

Well, Mouse's false pregnancies usually start in around the 5-6 week stage. She even gets milk, though she doesn't have any of the behaviours associated with a false preg. About 3 months after her heat is over, she's all back to normal. Mouse is 4 years old, and has heats every 8 months (not every 6 months) And Mouse wears a little diaper, as she does bleed quite a bit.

As for getting flak about not spaying young, It's not easy to put up with, however, not many people are responsible enough to have intact animals, so I'd rather most people go through life thinking it's healthier to spay/neuter young. I have an excuse, so I don't have to explain myself... Mouse's metal allergy is a good way to explain her intact status, without getting into why I choose not to spay early.

You might really enjoy the book "Pukka's Promise: the quest for longer lived dogs" by Ted Kerasote, the author of Merle's Door. It's an absolutely FANTASTIC book and goes into the neuter debate, as well as many other aspects to healthier dogs! I think every dog owner should read it!

As to the food, personally, I don't believe in feeding the same thing day after day, so I never so slow transitions, nor do I need to, as my dogs digestive systems have developed the ability to deal with variety. Earthborn and Canidae aren't horrible foods, by any means, I wouldn't choose to feed them, as they don't fit my criteria, but they're certainly not "dog chow" LOL. I'm a pet food snob, and have very few foods that I will allow my pets to even sniff

 

[amparra]

Hopefully its just a false pregnancy but your vet is very naive if he/she thinks a baby gate is all that is needed to keep dogs from mating. Dogs can mate through crates and chain-link fencing!

 

[Peanut]

Any recommendations on dog food? I'm open to suggestions! We're needing to buy some more this week, may as well check some out. We just have to use grain-free, because we also have a pit bull that cannot have grains.

Amparra - He said I didn't even NEED a babygate, but could use one if I felt more comfortable with it. I used it anyway, because I always use it to keep my son out of the back rooms, so I separated the pups anyway. I was told without a tie, he couldn't impregnate her, but I recently read that's false, too. I will definitely be switching vets, regardless. However, I'm wondering if maybe it is gas. May have gotten lucky.. Still crossing my fingers. She's way too young They're BOTH way too young!!

 

[DeafDogs]

All the foods I buy are grain-free

The dry foods I feed are First Mate, Horizon (amicus, Pulsar and Legacy), Champion (Orijen and Acana), and Fromm. I feed First Mate and Fromm canned foods, and the Honest Kitchen and DNA for dehydrated.

My dogs and cat also get raw, scraps and homecooked. They get something different every meal.

 

[Peanut]

I'll have to check into them. We have no real choices in my town, so we have to drive about an hour just to find anything decent. Our pet store stopped selling anything except Blue buffalo, and the only other choice is walmart, and I refuse to buy dogfood there. Thanks!!

 

[HilyBee]

Any news of puppies vs false preg. yet?

 

[Peanut]

No puppies yet. I'm starting to finally believe the vet and maybe it IS gas, by chance. Crazy movement for gas, but I don't know. I'm watching her temp just incase it spikes or drops. If it drops puppies will be coming, if it spikes, I'll take her in incase of infection. I'm going to say false. When adding up the days, July 9th would have been at the very least 63 days.

 

[Penny]

So you didn't have an xray done then.

 

[Peanut]

No, we decided against it. I think we're believing it's false, I mean, she has plenty of milk, but her stomach is a normal size. Still treating her as if it COULD happen, as a precaution. We don't leave her, and we're still charting temps, and her food intake is a bit more than normal. When I counted back, the date we came up with was July 9th as the latter end of when she could've had them. I have an appointment set up for next Friday with a new vet to do a well-check, and see if there's anything we can do for her to finish up the false pregnancy. We got lucky this time, and I've learned my lesson.. Not that we'll be adding any new pups to the house any time soon, but I definitely won't even risk it ever again. Her health is so much more important than this crap!

 

[Peanut]

Okay, Definitely NOT pregnant!!! Thank goodness! I'm still switching vets, regardless. For one, I will not be forced into something I'm not 100% sure about, and for two, correct information up front would have prevented this anyway.

 

[babysis]

Great to hear! A lot of the times they can have false pregnancies that can go as far as the stomach bloating and producing milk. It's very hard to find a vet that has experience with dachshunds. Check out if there is a dachshund rescue in your area and see if they have any vets they can recommend!