Breeding F choc/cream dapple


teamscon

New Member
Breeding color ? choc&cream dapple F

Hi! So, I knew someone awhile back that had a whole pack of dachshunds. I fell in love with them. I'm an Iraq veteran and find that the dachshund is the perfect dog for me. Funny, brave, calm when need be, alert and assertive.

I finally found a AKC breeder that I trusted Home is the best I could find in my area that were expecting pups.

Her bottom coat is cream, and top coat is chocolate. Her feet are lighter brown with brown nose, cream n choc dapple tail. Her eyes are blue.
Her face is mostly cream with chocolate small dark chocolate spots.

I plan to breed her 1-2 times to let her experience being a mom, me experience having small pups, and to return some of my investment honestly. She was 600.00 but well worth it being AKC registered and just a great dog. I know what I paid for.

Question:
Which color dachshund should I search to breed her with to obtain long hair cream/blue, blue/silver? I would love for most of them to have some variation of blue in them.

Her dad is Chocolate and tan
Her mom is Chocolate and tan dapple

Her blood line:
She carries a lot of blue it looks like. Atleast 2-3 of her family tree have blue in them (Not the mom or dad though.)




Thanks in advance hope to hear back soon :D
 
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Penny

New Member
Be sure that the male is not a dapple. Dapple to dapple breeding results in double dapple puppies that can be blind, missing eyes or poorly developed eyes, and deaf.

I think you should work with her breeder to pick the right stud for her, that works best for her conformation.
 

teamscon

New Member
Thanks for the quick reply!

I asked her breeder this and she told me the same thing. Do not breed her with another dapple. She said it can have a TAD of dapple but not much at all. I even asked if the breeder would stud one of her dogs and she didn't answer. I'm unsure why, but she doesn't seem to want to give any other info then dont breed with another dapple.

So, which colors should I breed her with to have a good chance for blue? Blue?

Her breeder isn't going to be much more help. Shes busy with her pups/work I'm sure. That's why I came here lol ..
 
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Penny

New Member
No, not even a TAD of dapple. Absolutely NO DAPPLE.
OK, bad advice from her already.

Do not breed for blue. Blue is a dilute color and dilutes have a problem with color dilution alopecia.

From Wikipedia
Colour Dilution Alopecia - WikiVet

There is gradual onset of a dry, dull, brittle and poor quality hair coat. Hair shafts break and regrowth is poor, resulting in a progressive, partial, patchy alopecia and stubble that precedes a more complete hair loss.

Lesions are usually more severe on the dorsal trunk.

Chronic cases can show hyperpigmentation, and scaling and secondary bacterial infections can occur.

Lesions will be limited to the dilute-coloured parts of the coat in multi-coloured animals.

There is no effective treatment for this disorder. The disease is progressive and incurable, but some palliative measures can be taken early on in the course of the disease.
If you do not have a knowledgeable breeder who is over seeing this male selection, breeding, pregnancy and delivery, I am afraid to say that you absolutely should not breed her. There are way too many things that can go wrong and you should not go ahead without someone knowledgeable and competent working with you. Even experienced breeders have had to rush their females in to an emergency vet and lost the momma and pups, (or lost the momma and had to somehow feed newborns around the clock) and had a huge vet bill to pay. You, and sadly the breeder it seems, don't have a good working knowledge of genetics to avoid genetic issues. Not the advice you wanted I know but you have a wonderful girl to spend many loving years with. She does not need to have the momma experience to be a wonderful and loving companion.
 

teamscon

New Member
No, not even a TAD of dapple. Absolutely NO DAPPLE.
OK, bad advice from her already.

Do not breed for blue. Blue is a dilute color and dilutes have a problem with color dilution alopecia.

From Wikipedia
Colour Dilution Alopecia - WikiVet


If you do not have a knowledgeable breeder who is over seeing this male selection, breeding, pregnancy and delivery, I am afraid to say that you absolutely should not breed her. There are way too many things that can go wrong and you should not go ahead without someone knowledgeable and competent working with you. Even experienced breeders have had to rush their females in to an emergency vet and lost the momma and pups, (or lost the momma and had to somehow feed newborns around the clock) and had a huge vet bill to pay. You, and sadly the breeder it seems, don't have a good working knowledge of genetics to avoid genetic issues. Not the advice you wanted I know but you have a wonderful girl to spend many loving years with. She does not need to have the momma experience to be a wonderful and loving companion.
Penny .. While your intentions are well I can tell you've got a chip on your shoulder and are wound up over the issue. Ive looked at some of your other posts and you seem unnecessarily snobby with a lot of your views.
Yes, I am going to breed her whether penny likes it or loves it. I didn't ask if I should breed her I'll speak with the vet about that. I asked which colors are safe to breed with and how to obtain some blue in the puppies coats.

So, while I'm sure you're very passionate about your "champion best in the world show dogs" most are not worried about showing dogs ...

So take a deep breathe, and try again if you like.

My question once again is:

Which color should I breed my chocolate and tan dapple female with to hopefully get one with some blue I can keep?
If dilution alopecia exists then how does anyone breed blue dogs?

Telling me I shouldn't breed helps nothing. This is why I'm here .. To learn.


(Puppy is same color/markings but piper has blue eyes)

If it is not safe to go for blue .. Should I try for a full cream male?
 
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Penny

New Member
Penny .. While your intentions are well I can tell you've got a chip on your shoulder and are wound up over the issue. Ive looked at some of your other posts and you seem unnecessarily snobby with a lot of your views.
I guess the chip on my shoulder is from puppies being born blind and deaf when it's totally avoidable and the breeders fault. That really irks me. So wound up over the issue. Yes. I agree with your assessment. The 'tad' of dapple had me spitting nails so I was trying to be direct with my comments but informative. Maybe I didn't pull it off.

Thank you for your criticism of being snobby. I appreciate your honesty. I will decline further comment on your thread.
 

teamscon

New Member
I guess the chip on my shoulder is from puppies being born blind and deaf when it's totally avoidable and the breeders fault. That really irks me. So wound up over the issue. Yes. I agree with your assessment. The 'tad' of dapple had me spitting nails so I was trying to be direct with my comments but informative. Maybe I didn't pull it off.

Thank you for your criticism of being snobby. I appreciate your honesty. I will decline further comment on your thread.
My goodness why did you even comment on the post? Wouldn't it have been more constructive just to link to gene info and say not to breed two dapples together? I've learned nothing from your 3 posts .. Nothing at all.

I'll just look elsewhere .. Screw this site and your "champion dogs"

If I end up breeding a mutant I'll send it your way :rolleyes:
 

BelowHylan

New Member
Based on your initial post, you do not know the full history of your dog. There are a lot more issues that could happen besides breeding two dapples. Genetics is a complex science and it takes people a long time to ensure proper breeding. This, of course, is only if you are interested in bettering the breed.

While I do know know enough about Doxie issues, I have extensive experience breeding chinchillas. What I took away from my experience is as follows: unless the full pedigree of both animals is known, the owner is asking for trouble.

Having said that, I purchased my dog from a German breeder and I have a full book detailing my dog's pedigree and lineage. I do not plan to alter her and my wish (just like yours, I think) is to possibly breed her in the future to ensure a healthier female and to let her experience motherhood. When I purchased her, this was discussed with the breeder and she is more than willing to help me select a stud for Zoya. She does not view me as competition and her utmost concern is to ensure the health of her puppy for the rest of her life. I wish all breeders felt the same way.
 

babysis

New Member
While I do know know enough about Doxie issues, I have extensive experience breeding chinchillas. What I took away from my experience is as follows: unless the full pedigree of both animals is known, the owner is asking for trouble.
I couldn't agree more. It's a matter of knowing the history and studying the lineage. My girl was silver, black, tan, (and with blue Merle) her dad was red and her mom was black and tan. But in her lineage there was on her mother's side- dapple. No where on the father's side at all. It's crazy how genetics work.

I recommend working together with the breeder to figure out.

Sorry that you are leaving teamscon, not everyone believes or agrees in opinions stated by other members and are WILLING to help and give advice.;)
 

Hunter's Parade

New Member
In case you look here again or someone with the same question.
First of all never breed dapple with dapple,you risk to get dead,blind,no eyes at all,deaf,dogs that can go out only at night because they get sunburns at day.
You can look up my posts,I had litter where sir was chocolate dapple and tan and dam black and tan with no chocolate gene.I have one topic about black and blue dapples where you can see picture of one of my pups at 4 months.
I don't know anything about blue,I breed under FCI and FCI does not allow such color as blue in dachshunds. So if you want something silver breed her with simple black an tan male with no chocolate gene.If the male will have choc gene you may result in more chocolate dapples,of course there still might be silver dapple but the chance getting a silver dapple will be bigger if the male wont have choc gene.
 

naranjok

New Member
Breeding dilutes

Hey there, I wish I had good news for you but unfortunantly I do not. I am guessing here so I am not 100% sure on her lineage but from what you posted it seems she does not have a dilute gene in her history. In order to get a dilute puppy (blue is a diluted black, and isabella is a diluted chocolate) you need two dilute genes since it is recessive. So unless you do a dna panel and find out her exact genes, my thoughts are that she more than likely cannot produce a blue puppy. But if by chance she does have the gene, if you breed her to a blue and tan she may have some blue pups! :)
As for the dapple part, the others weren't clear on why it is so important that you do not breed her to another dapple (a dapple is any dog showing blue eyes or any spots, including speckled ears). The dapple gene is dominant, a dachshund is either a dapple, or not. If you breed two together every puppy will be a double dapple, meaning it has two dapple genes. You run a HUGE risk doing this, many of the puppies can come out deformed, blind, missing eyeballs, deaf, among others. It is a risk that is frowned upon and should never be taken. Best of luck!!!!!
 

fleetwoodmad

New Member
[Hi Naranjok,

Do you know if an isabella tan bred with a silver dapple produces puppies with the same potential issues as a dilute? I am considering purchasing a puppy from a litter like this but am unsure if there are potential complications like there are with dapple bred with dapple. Thanks!
 

CaseyKC

Member
Welcome Fleetwoodmad. I can't answer your question with any certainty. but would suggest that you join the FB group "Learning dachshund colors, patterns and coats." Some of the people in that group are experts with genetics. However, they may wish to see a DNA panel before they can answer your question. I do know that with dilutes, alopecia can, but does not always, occur and is considered a genetic problem.
 
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