for those of you asking about colour genetics.

DeafDogs

Alberta Region Moderator
#3
I actually contacted the lady to see if she could help me figure out what colour Boo is... cuz he's not normal lol. I actually think he's a tweed... but she said she's never seen ot on a double. She got back to me right away and asked for pics. So we'll see :)
 

Penny

New Member
#4
I actually contacted the lady to see if she could help me figure out what colour Boo is... cuz he's not normal lol. I actually think he's a tweed... but she said she's never seen ot on a double. She got back to me right away and asked for pics. So we'll see :)
She's never seen ot on a dapple.
What does that mean?? lol

Let's see some pics of Boo!!
 

DeafDogs

Alberta Region Moderator
#5
She's never seen ot on a dapple.
What does that mean?? lol

Let's see some pics of Boo!!
she's seen it in single merles/dapples but not doubles.

From her site

Tweed is a merle modifier that turns the diluted parts of the coat (which should be grey in a normal merle, or light brown in a liver) into a variety of brown, grey and tan shades, resulting in a dog that has very similar markings to an African Wild Dog. It is known to occur in Australian Shepherds and Catahoula Leopard Dogs (where it is known as "patchwork"). It is possible that the tweed mutation occurred in just one of the breeds to begin with and then spread to the other, as interbreeding between the two breeds is common in the USA, or else it simply occurs as a mutation every now and again in breeds in which a high number of merles are bred (more merles increases the possibility of mutation, and merle is known to be a fragile gene that mutates more frequently than most others). Either way, it is a rare and striking pattern. It is often assigned its own locus, Tw, and is thought to be dominant.
Some people claim the existence of two genes which cause the tweed pattern. One causes very random patterning with white patches amongst the grey, brown and black. Australian Shepherd breeders know this as "harlequin", although it is different to the harlequin found in Great Danes (see below).
The second gene is thought to be true tweed. This type of tweed does not include white patches. Sometimes it is also more regular than the "harlequin" type, and the different colours can cover larger areas of the dog. It is not known whether these two types of tweed are caused by separate genes or variations (or modifications) of the same gene.
Tweed can occur in any of the patterns shown on the merle page (with tan markings, white, brindle etc). However, interestingly, it has never been reported to occur on a double merle. It's not at all certain why this is.
 
#7
How interesting, please don't forget to let us know what she replies!

I was so impressed with Jess's page I have also liked her face book page and have emailed her as well with a question I have.

Knowledge is good, if more people took the time to understand genetics before they bred their dogs we wouldn't see many of the problems our dogs have today.
 
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#8
I contacted Jess as I am trying to work out if my pup (who has very dark liver whiskers) is a recessive red and this is what she replied:

"As for whether she is a recessive red or a sable, this is a more difficult question. Both colours occur in Dachshunds and they can look essentially the same. Her whiskers will be dark liver rather than black (black is genetically impossible on a liver-nosed dog), and there is an idea that whisker colour can distinguish between sable and recessive red. On this basis she would be a sable, although I wouldn't want to say for definite as the whisker thing has not really been confirmed!"
 

Penny

New Member
#9
I contacted Jess as I am trying to work out if my pup (who has very dark liver whiskers) is a recessive red and this is what she replied:

"As for whether she is a recessive red or a sable, this is a more difficult question. Both colours occur in Dachshunds and they can look essentially the same. Her whiskers will be dark liver rather than black (black is genetically impossible on a liver-nosed dog), and there is an idea that whisker colour can distinguish between sable and recessive red. On this basis she would be a sable, although I wouldn't want to say for definite as the whisker thing has not really been confirmed!"
I don't understand how a recessive red and sable look the same. They do not. Sable is a term used for long hairs only and it's a red dog with a lot of black shading, often showing a widows peak on the forehead. It looks like a bl/t from a distance. Recessive red has no black shading at all.

Maybe you are confusing her reply?
 

Penny

New Member
#10
If you have a red dog with a liver nose, she is a choc based red. Whether she is an ee red or not is another matter. Does she show choc shading on the typical places where a black based red shows shading? Down the back, on the tail, on the ears?
 
#11
What I do know is my pup is a bb (hence the liver nose). Both of my pups parents were red, mum had a liver nose and dad had a black nose.

I was trying to find out if my pup was a recessive red because what I have read on the internet so far seems to say a clear red has no liver or black hairs, (my pup has dark liver whiskers) and Jess suggested she may be a sable?

The only short hair "reds" advertised in the UK are clear red, shaded red (red with a dark overlay on the spine / tail ) or a red dapple. I haven't seen a short hair sable registered with the KC either so I am now even more confused.

Could it be what you call a sable we call shaded red?
 
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Penny

New Member
#12
What I do know is my pup is a bb (hence the liver nose). Both of my pups parents were red, mum had a liver nose and dad had a black nose.

I was trying to find out if my pup was a recessive red because what I have read on the internet so far seems to say a clear red has no liver or black hairs, (my pup has dark liver whiskers) and Jess suggested she may be a sable?

The only short hair "reds" advertised in the UK are clear red, shaded red (red with a dark overlay on the spine / tail ) or a red dapple. I haven't seen a short hair sable registered with the KC either so I am now even more confused.

Could it be what you call a sable we call shaded red?
No, they are different. A shaded red will have black hairs mixed in with the red. A sable will have hairs that are red at the base and go black at the tip.

If she has no chocolatey shading in the usual areas where there is shading, then she is an ee red, or clear red. That's the easiest way to tell.
 
#13
Thanks Penny, this pup is advertised in the UK as a short hair shaded red, is this what you call a sable?

I haven't seen a sable here, the long hair pups with the darker shading seem to be also called shaded red.
 

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Penny

New Member
#14
It could be either. Remember, it takes a hands on look to see if the hair is red at the root, black at the tip. You can't see that from a photo, so if they say it's a shaded red, it likely is. Doxies can have just a bit of shading or lots, it can vary.

Doxie genetics can get complicated. lol
 
#16
Thanks Penny, this pup is advertised in the UK as a short hair shaded red, is this what you call a sable?

I haven't seen a sable here, the long hair pups with the darker shading seem to be also called shaded red.
Hi, new to this site and a new mini Dachshund owner. I see this is a few years old but was wondering if you ever found out for sure what color this puppy is considered? Mine is colored the exact same way and I have been researching trying to figure it out myself. I had it narrowed down to being a red or wild boar but after reading about the wild boar I don't think that is correct. Anyway thanks in advance for any info.